philosophy meta-forum

Thomas Pogge

Ronald

10 day(s) ago

What ever happened to Thomas Pogge? Is he still teaching at Yale?

Nae

10 day(s) ago

He still has is Yale page, so I guess so? https://philosophy.yale.edu/people/thomas-pogge

Nae

10 day(s) ago

*has his Yale page

Kathleen

10 day(s) ago

Yes, he is a regular member of the department.

Arcesilaus

10 day(s) ago

What ever happened to Thomas Pogge?

Ronald

He's decide to live his life as a gay man to make up for his earlier mistakes.

Alexandra

9 day(s) ago

Another man's life RUINED by accusations of sexual misconduct! When will it end?

Rosalind

9 day(s) ago

Another man's life RUINED by accusations of sexual misconduct! When will it end?

Alexandra

I know, right — what could be worse than having to keep one's senior job at Yale?

Maybe winning the Schock Prize.

Giles

9 day(s) ago

Wow, Alexandra. Let's review.

We've entered a fucked-up world where, contrary to all principles of fair dealing and common sense, we're eroding the basis of thousands of years of laws -- laws that protect innocent people from having their lives destroyed by weaponized accusations on the part of private citizens or government actors -- and nobody is blinking an eye because feminism. And we're doing this in the service of exactly the same social pressures that led to the Klan's lynching of black people in the American south. Read your history. Do you know why those lynchings took place? It's almost always because those black men were accused -- you guessed it -- of raping or being sexually improper with poor, innocent women who needed protection. Sure, they were just accusations. Sure, there wasn't adequate supporting evidence, and sure, the law didn't find enough to go on. But that was why the self-righteous, noble-minded lynchers went at it. They bound together to protect women. They couldn't see any reason why the women making the accusations would ever ever make such a thing up. These women were so weak and helpless at the hands of the evil men who went after them. And that was enough. Better to destroy or even kill an innocent man (and it wasn't just black men) than allow a woman to come to harm because nobody was chivalrous to trust her word unquestioningly.

You don't lament the breakdown of law and order, and respect for common sense and the crucially important presumption of innocence that comes with that. Why would you? Nobody else around you is concerned about it. Why should you be any different? Why should you, a member of the PHILOSOPHICAL community, ever think for yourself and examine the history of just why the presumption of innocence is so very important, and how the 'innocent women merely accusing men, so let's get those evil men' trope has been used in more or less every ideological catastrophe in history as a way to get people to lose their respect for law and order and erode the systems that protect them? Why should you care?

No, you have much bigger things to care about than the downfall of a cornerstone of civilization and public safety, don't you. You're exercised by a straw man. You imply -- utterly falsely -- that any view less pig-headed than your own must hold not that innocent lives are or could be unfairly ruined in the face of mere accusations of sexual assault, but rather the utterly distorted caricature that every single man who is ever accused of sexual assault must lose his position in particular. You're not even trying here. You're too busy sneering and being sarcastic and thinking you're the smartest person in the universe. In fact, you are surely one of the profession's biggest idiots, and that's saying something.

Look: Pogge was investigated. The investigators found that there was not sufficient evidence to dismiss him from his post. You need good evidence to dismiss people from tenured positions. Or, at least, you're supposed to have good evidence. Even that rule is not always followed. But, congratulations, you managed to find a case in which a university decided not to violate the law and its own policies in dismissing someone from a tenured position on the basis of a mere accusation and uninformed public outrage machine.

But even that doesn't imply that nothing has happened to Pogge as a result of it. Sure, he still has his position at Yale. But he's being shunned by the discipline, merely on the basis of unproven accusations and supermarket tabloid fodder. Many are refusing to cite his works. He went from being one of the most cited authorities on some very pressing issues to being almost an un-person. Many have publicly announced that they are dropping his work from their reading lists. This doesn't even touch on what's surely happened in his personal life.

"When will it all end", indeed. I hope it ends with a massive turning of the tide, and soon. This idiocy is not only destructive and embarrassing, it's even dull.

Dharmakirti

9 day(s) ago

It is dull, now that you've written 700 words on it.

Hypatia

9 day(s) ago

The reason that Pogge was found (more or less) not responsible was because the panel refused to adjudicate allegations that occurred when the student was a recent graduate of Yale and has consistently refused to hear testimony from non-Yale philosophy students. This is well documented in publicly available sources.

We can have a debate on the ethics of those decisions, but it's not like Yale investigated all, or even most, of the complaints that have been circulating in media about him. Mostly they have refused to.

Erich

9 day(s) ago

It is not at all the business of a university to adjudicate alleged intimate matters between a professor and someone who is not a member of that university. To do so would be overreach.

If a professor does something apparently illegal in his intimate dealings, then that should be brought to the legal authorities, who can investigate properly and impartially. If it was not illegal and the person is not a member of that university with the professor serving in a supervisory capacity, then the university is right not to get involved.

University tribunals are not forensic investigation bodies, and have no proper competence to adjudicate matters that don't even involve complaints from within our other internal parties.

Dharmakirti, I guess your reading level and attention span are those of a ten year old, and that you don't realize that hundreds of thousands of words have already been spent on the other side of this issue. To you, it seems, the only objection is against anything at all against your narrow interpretation.how very anti-philosophical.

Celsus

9 day(s) ago

If the university investigates Pogge finding him guilty, then he's guilty.

If the university investigates Pogge finding him innocent, then he's guilty.

What is striking about this reasoning?

Chrysippus

9 day(s) ago

Yes he can keep his job, but he's a pervert and global justice is shitbrain crazy.

I wouldn't talk to him at a conference. His Monica Lewinsky jokes are so lame.

Dickinson

8 day(s) ago

Global justice is part of the long con that keeps consumerism and the global finance ponzi scheme afloat.

Pogge should be ostracized for his garbage autism philosophy as much or more than his inept womanizing. Something about Nietzsche and philosophers being empty shills for the existing values and all that.

Juliet

8 day(s) ago

I instinctively distrust philosophers who advocate 'global justice' and other absurd SJW ideas. They're not just wrong, they know that they're wrong, and that's why I don't trust them at all.

Suzy

8 day(s) ago

Pogge's work has never been SJW work. Nothing about narcissistic crybabies or "identity"/diversify.

Guillaume

8 day(s) ago

Pogge is a socialist. Clearly SJWs are not socialists. SJWs are the elite.

For example, Justin Weinberg's brother is a millionaire hedge fund manager.

Giles

8 day(s) ago

An interesting pattern I've seen in this #metoo hysteria is this: prominent members of the egalitarian (sensible) and free-thinking (also sensible) left are being accused and destroyed, perhaps even more than right-wingers.

This is interesting, isn't it? Because who are the competitors of the SJW/diversity crowd (not at all sensible, but backward and socially corrosive)? The egalitarian and free-thinking left. If the egalitarian and free-thinking left are removed from their positions, whether as interviewers or comedians or professors, who will replace them? Who could occupy an ostensibly nearby niche? Not members of the right, but SJWs.

Every time I hear about a Charlie Rose, Louis CK, or Peter Ludlow under attack, I think of who will replace them. In fact, the more people the SJWs accuse at this moment of #metoo hysteria, the more positions will open up for him.

Surely, this point must be appreciated by the SJWs at some unconscious level. Yes, the accusers tend to be narcissistic people who see that they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by making these accusations: many of them are facing dismal careers if they don't make these charges, and are an hour away from celebrity status with a positive valence if they make the accusation. But to many with longer-range vision, the utter destruction must have a more general positive spin. This is their moment to slaughter the old generation and fill the spots with the new.

And once they're in in much greater numbers, don't think for a minute that they'll ever miss a chance to hire on more and more of their own. And who on earth will dare to question their choices then?

Hippolyte

8 day(s) ago

Giles,

We also have a history of burning women at the stake for reporting sexual violence. The fuck is your point?

Hippolyte

8 day(s) ago

Also, what is hysterical about people describing abusive actions that have happened to them?

Chrysippus

8 day(s) ago

Never forget that Pogge was a racist predator. He targeted women of color.

He was hoping that blaming white people (other than himself) for global poverty would get him laid.

Muro

8 day(s) ago

Add coal burning to Pogge's list of crimes.

Fernando

8 day(s) ago

btw how does one say his name in academese?

Pogg? Poggy? Pawguh?

Rafael

8 day(s) ago

Pogge is a socialist. Clearly SJWs are not socialists. SJWs are the elite.

Guillaume

Socialism is to class what SJWs are to gender and race. They are very similar movements driven to injustice by envy and resentment.

Guo

7 day(s) ago

Allegations of sexual harassment have been made against Justin Weinberg in the Thomas Pogge thread.

The evidence against Weinberg is mounting.

Antonio

7 day(s) ago

Pogge is a socialist. Clearly SJWs are not socialists. SJWs are the elite.

Guillaume

Socialism is to class what SJWs are to gender and race. They are very similar movements driven to injustice by envy and resentment.

Rafael

Nope. Socialism is ok, though wrong about economics.

But gender and racial warfare are fascist movements: SJWs are fascists.

Ulrich

7 day(s) ago

More to the point: why is Pogge still at Yale? Do Pogge's letters of recommendation still carry weight? Does he remain plugged-in enough to orient his graduate students in the fields they'll specialize in? Knowing his history, can his undergraduates reasonably be expected to trust and respect him enough to work closely with him?

If the answers to these questions are "no" (and I suspect they is, though I'm hardly informed or confident about this), he's really doing everyone a disservice by not resigning.

Nagarjuna

7 day(s) ago

More to the point: why is Pogge still at Yale? Do Pogge's letters of recommendation still carry weight? Does he remain plugged-in enough to orient his graduate students in the fields they'll specialize in? Knowing his history, can his undergraduates reasonably be expected to trust and respect him enough to work closely with him?

If the answers to these questions are "no" (and I suspect they is, though I'm hardly informed or confident about this), he's really doing everyone a disservice by not resigning.

Ulrich

I would be shocked if Pogge was still advising graduate students. (Maybe people already working with him will finish, but I'd be shocked if anybody asks him to be their advisor, from here on out.)

Morris

7 day(s) ago

Imagine being a Asian female with some serious philosophical skills stuck with Pogge as a supervisor...

Fernando

7 day(s) ago

"he's really doing everyone a disservice by not resigning."

It's far more than a disservice.. It's a global injustice!

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