philosophy meta-forum

Jobs outside the US

Hartry

53 day(s) ago

So, where are the best non-US jobs? How hard is it to get them? Any surprising differences about these jobs or the application process? Is there anything one should be doing in advance to better prepare for applying for them? This is a thread for these and related questions. I (and others, I'm sure) would appreciate any insights people have, especially from those with some relevant experience. Please keep culture war bullshit elsewhere.

Gilles

53 day(s) ago

UK, but academia is getting painfully bureaucratic there.

Holland probably has the best combination of fairly open market, good salaries, good conditions, and good location.

Germany is pretty good if you can get a full professorship.

Keith

53 day(s) ago

I would similarly be interested-- not only in the "best" non-US jobs, but any decent non-US jobs (and non Western Europe jobs). Are three jobs in, say, Ukraine or Thailand or Ecuador or wherever. The job boards tell me there is an occasional opening in Astana, sister schools in China, American University in Lebanon, and Singapore. But does anyone have any advice on finding/landing jobs in more non-traditional places?

Florian

53 day(s) ago

Holland probably has the best combination of fairly open market, good salaries, good conditions, and good location.

I would rank Canada highly on these points as well.

Daryush

53 day(s) ago

Holland probably has the best combination of fairly open market, good salaries, good conditions, and good location.

I would rank Canada highly on these points as well.

Florian

"good salaries" in Holland? hahahahah

Daryush

53 day(s) ago

In Europe there are good salaries in Switzerland and Germany (for full professors).

I think also Scandinavian countries should be ok, although I am not sure.

But Holland and the UK are definitely not the place you want to land a job. Bureaucratic nightmare+low pay. That's the reality.

Yes, Amsterdam is cute, Hollland in general is lovely etc., but the job sucks.

I like Keith's question. I would be interested in job in the Baltic countries and in Poland. Has anybody suggestions for websites etc.?

Daryush

53 day(s) ago

So, where are the best non-US jobs? How hard is it to get them? Any surprising differences about these jobs or the application process? Is there anything one should be doing in advance to better prepare for applying for them?

Hartry

I would say the best non-US jobs are in Canada. I teach at a Canadian university, even though I didn't get my PhD here.

The hiring process is fair.

Some places (UBC and Toronto) are highly competitive.

The application process is essentially identical to the American one.

I hope this helps, even though I guess you were more interested in other locations.

Dong

53 day(s) ago

Canada is great, but getting a job there is hard. There are barely any in any given year, and their job market is totally saturated. There's a lot less competition for jobs at Francophone universities, but that's because of the obvious language barrier, which weeds out most Americans.

Ivan

53 day(s) ago

Usually listings for jobs in Canada say that preference will be given to Canadian citizens and permanent residents. Does anyone know if this is really done in practice?

Dong

53 day(s) ago

Usually listings for jobs in Canada say that preference will be given to Canadian citizens and permanent residents. Does anyone know if this is really done in practice?

Ivan

It depends on the institution, but if it's a university the answer is almost always that it's not especially serious. It's just boilerplate language required by law. It's easy to get around the requirement for university jobs. Just look at the faculty in the hiring department: quite a lot are bound to be American.

Note that the US has a similar law, and it's similarly effective (i.e. not very) when it comes to faculty jobs

Voltaire

53 day(s) ago

Australia pays well by any standard.

Timothy

53 day(s) ago

Usually listings for jobs in Canada say that preference will be given to Canadian citizens and permanent residents. Does anyone know if this is really done in practice?

Ivan

Well, if you are competing with a Canadian woman who is as strong as you are, the odds are she's gonna land the job. If she doesn't, the administrators will be bullying your colleagues for a while.

but as a rule of thumb, no, if they want you, they'll hire you. the hassle will come after the faculty chooses you. Canadian authorities will take their time to issue you a work permit. Once you have it, you are set.

Kazimierz

53 day(s) ago

What is the situation for jobs in the US for applicants from abroad? Did the government institute the rule that required the very high salaries for work visas? I recall some discussion of this a few months ago when the Trump administration was kicking around some ideas for changing the immigration rules and it seemed to have worrying implications for people outside the US.

Aristo

53 day(s) ago

I disagree with the sentiment above about the UK. It's a great place to work as a philosopher. The pay for a senior lectureship (basically where most people who get permanent jobs will end up unless they are good enough to become professor) is decent - well above average. Sure, if you live in London or a fancy town in the South, or in Edinburgh, then you are well screwed. Otherwise, things are grand with a two-salary family with one of the salaries being a Senior Lecturer's. Easy to own a nice house, two cars, all the rest. No private school, but who needs it if you are in a good catchment area.

The philosophical community in the UK is not surpassed anywhere else. There is a lot of bureaucracy, but it is not as horrible as everyone makes it out to be. The union is good, strong, and democratic, and everyone enjoys a good pint after a talk.

It's not heaven but only fools go chasing after heaven.

Nishitani

53 day(s) ago

I disagree with the sentiment above about the UK. It's a great place to work as a philosopher. The pay for a senior lectureship (basically where most people who get permanent jobs will end up unless they are good enough to become professor) is decent - well above average. Sure, if you live in London or a fancy town in the South, or in Edinburgh, then you are well screwed. Otherwise, things are grand with a two-salary family with one of the salaries being a Senior Lecturer's. Easy to own a nice house, two cars, all the rest. No private school, but who needs it if you are in a good catchment area.

The philosophical community in the UK is not surpassed anywhere else. There is a lot of bureaucracy, but it is not as horrible as everyone makes it out to be. The union is good, strong, and democratic, and everyone enjoys a good pint after a talk.

It's not heaven but only fools go chasing after heaven.

Aristo

"Sure, if you live in London or a fancy town in the South, or in Edinburgh, then you are well screwed."

Are there universities outside of the South&London? I mean: I know there are some, but 80% of all UK jobs are in the South-East of England. and there you won't afford buying a "nice house", nor you'll have two cars.

Nicos

53 day(s) ago

I disagree with the sentiment above about the UK. It's a great place to work as a philosopher. The pay for a senior lectureship (basically where most people who get permanent jobs will end up unless they are good enough to become professor) is decent - well above average. Sure, if you live in London or a fancy town in the South, or in Edinburgh, then you are well screwed. Otherwise, things are grand with a two-salary family with one of the salaries being a Senior Lecturer's. Easy to own a nice house, two cars, all the rest. No private school, but who needs it if you are in a good catchment area.

The philosophical community in the UK is not surpassed anywhere else. There is a lot of bureaucracy, but it is not as horrible as everyone makes it out to be. The union is good, strong, and democratic, and everyone enjoys a good pint after a talk.

It's not heaven but only fools go chasing after heaven.

Aristo

"Sure, if you live in London or a fancy town in the South, or in Edinburgh, then you are well screwed."

Are there universities outside of the South&London? I mean: I know there are some, but 80% of all UK jobs are in the South-East of England. and there you won't afford buying a "nice house", nor you'll have two cars.

Nishitani

Uh... ever hear of northern England or the midlands? Lots of great universities there: York, Sheffield, Leeds, Nottingham, Manchester, Manchester Metropolitan, Liverpool, Lancaster, Durham, Liverpool, Hull, Warwick, Leicester, Birmingham, Keele, Coventry...

Thome

53 day(s) ago

Most UK jobs aren't advertised on PhilJobs, either. They're on jobs.ac.uk and PHILOS-L.

Martha

53 day(s) ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9oKo-QvBpo

Julia

53 day(s) ago

Got to watch out for northern England too. You might be able to afford a house but "diversity" will diddle up your kids and the cops won't care because of rayciss:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

Martha

52 day(s) ago

Got to watch out for northern England too. You might be able to afford a house but "diversity" will diddle up your kids and the cops won't care because of rayciss:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

Julia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9oKo-QvBpo Watch this!

Watsuji

52 day(s) ago

I would say the best non-US jobs are in Canada. I teach at a Canadian university, even though I didn't get my PhD here.

The hiring process is fair.

Isn't there anti-male bias?

Ernesto

52 day(s) ago

Not at my Canadian University. Our proportion of males to females is about the same as the profession at large.

Also: I'm continually surprised at how many fewer applications we get compared to comparable positions at comparable universities in the US. I guess a lot of American applications either don't want to move to another country (maybe their partner is a lawyer or something that would be hard to switch from US to Canada?) or think they have no shot at a job here. Our pay is better than all but elite jobs in the US.

Timon

52 day(s) ago

Not at my Canadian University. Our proportion of males to females is about the same as the profession at large.

Also: I'm continually surprised at how many fewer applications we get compared to comparable positions at comparable universities in the US. I guess a lot of American applications either don't want to move to another country (maybe their partner is a lawyer or something that would be hard to switch from US to Canada?) or think they have no shot at a job here. Our pay is better than all but elite jobs in the US.

Ernesto

Judging from the fact that someone asks about the "preference" language *every year*, I suspect it's that a lot of people take themselves out of the running, just like they do for jobs at fancy schools. Beats me why they do that, though, since it's clearly doing the job market wrong.

Dagfinn

52 day(s) ago

I would say the best non-US jobs are in Canada. I teach at a Canadian university, even though I didn't get my PhD here.

The hiring process is fair.

Isn't there anti-male bias?

Watsuji

Of course there is.

These days, if you are a straight man for the first year on the market, you are VERY VERY unlikely to land a decent job. I don't have the pulse of the situation in the US, but I think it is as bad as it is in Canada.

Dagfinn

52 day(s) ago

Our pay is better than all but elite jobs in the US.

Ernesto

Seriously? Did you factor in the heating expenses during winter?

Dagfinn

52 day(s) ago

Yes- also factored in health care costs etc

Judah

51 day(s) ago

In the UK there is no tenure or tenure-track. Lectureships are generally permanent and come with decent job security from the beginning. You cannot be dismissed without fair reason after two years in the job. Rights at work are good, rights concerning things like sick pay and maternity pay are good. It is a good place to be junior faculty.

The drawback is that there is formally no tenure, so you can be made redundant, sacked for incompetence, for bringing your organization into disrepute, for disobeying management, etc. Better to be senior in the US.

Timothy

49 day(s) ago

I just checked the reader pay-scale in Cambridge. They make GBP 63k/year.

The pay in US/Canada is definitely better.

but what about more exotic locations? anyone teaching in the Arabic Emirates out there? or singapore?

Dong

49 day(s) ago

They get 63k GBP, but also subsidized housing and some meals in college.

Arda

45 day(s) ago

A job in Switzerland not advertised on philjobs : http://www.unine.ch/candis

is there a Swiss version of philjobs?

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