philosophy meta-forum

"There Is No Free Speech Crisis On Campus"

Bernhard

142 day(s) ago

Unbelievably stupid.

Justus

142 day(s) ago

Unbelievably stupid.

Bernhard

...because it was full of true propositions?

Chauncey

142 day(s) ago

This article is just more of the same propaganda people (including professors and students) are beginning rightly to disregard.

The universities are facing a public crisis because everyone is starting to realize that they are indoctrination factories.

Articles like these only underscore the point they aim to conceal: who can honestly claim that universities are today free and open? Of course they are not. There is a palpable climate of fear, and everyone knows that you will be shunned and slandered (and even perhaps fired) if you say or do the wrong thing.

The next time you take a walk on campus pay attention to people's faces. I don't see many carefree smiles anymore. I see a group of people filled with dread and anxiety and stress, who look browbeaten and defeated, and look like they don't even understand why they are there at all. They know they are being fleeced, trained to accept a lifetime as cogs in a godless machine.

Gersonides

142 day(s) ago

This article is just more of the same propaganda people (including professors and students) are beginning rightly to disregard.

The universities are facing a public crisis because everyone is starting to realize that they are indoctrination factories.

Articles like these only underscore the point they aim to conceal: who can honestly claim that universities are today free and open? Of course they are not. There is a palpable climate of fear, and everyone knows that you will be shunned and slandered (and even perhaps fired) if you say or do the wrong thing.

The next time you take a walk on campus pay attention to people's faces. I don't see many carefree smiles anymore. I see a group of people filled with dread and anxiety and stress, who look browbeaten and defeated, and look like they don't even understand why they are there at all. They know they are being fleeced, trained to accept a lifetime as cogs in a godless machine.

Chauncey

Yes. Yes. A million thousand times YES! It is basically North Korea. Or as Christopher Hitchens said of universities, "a celestial North Korea."

Walter

142 day(s) ago

The argument of that piece is basically this: The survey sucks. Therefore there's no free speech crisis.

Um, that doesn't follow. The survey might suck and yet there might be a free speech crisis. Amazing. Shit evidence for X doesn't mean X is false.

Caio

142 day(s) ago

Um, that doesn't follow. The survey might suck and yet there might be a free speech crisis. Amazing. Shit evidence for X doesn't mean X is false.

Walter

So in the absence of evidence for X, we should just believe X anyway? Give me a break.

Elijah

142 day(s) ago

Um, that doesn't follow. The survey might suck and yet there might be a free speech crisis. Amazing. Shit evidence for X doesn't mean X is false.

Walter

So in the absence of evidence for X, we should just believe X anyway? Give me a break.

Caio

Absence of evidence? Just take a walk around any campus and have a look.

We don't need a "study" to confirm what is already plain as day.

Justus

141 day(s) ago

I just did. Didn't see any of this so-called evidence of yours. You'll need to work harder to turn your anecdotes into data, bro.

Math up or fuck out.

Elijah

141 day(s) ago

I just did. Didn't see any of this so-called evidence of yours. You'll need to work harder to turn your anecdotes into data, bro.

Math up or fuck out.

Justus

I truly feel sorry for you. You are a very lost soul.

Walter

141 day(s) ago

Um, that doesn't follow. The survey might suck and yet there might be a free speech crisis. Amazing. Shit evidence for X doesn't mean X is false.

Walter

So in the absence of evidence for X, we should just believe X anyway? Give me a break.

Caio

No one said that, and it isn't an implication of what I said. I take it you have no finished your logic class in grad school yet.

Georges

140 day(s) ago

I just did. Didn't see any of this so-called evidence of yours. You'll need to work harder to turn your anecdotes into data, bro.

Math up or fuck out.

Justus

You um...do realize that there's a long fuckton of evidence for the proposition that there is a problem with free speech on campuses, no?

You seem to be coming fairly close to presupposing that a survey of student attitudes is the only relevant kind of evidence. Which...isn't even close to being close to being true.

Georges

140 day(s) ago

"There is no public space in America more open to diverse opinions than our college campuses."

Wow. Somebody hasn't been on campus in awhile.

Liu

140 day(s) ago

A pub full of drunks is more open to diverse opinions than a campus these days.

In the sixties the radical leftists came to campus because it was the only place that respected their free speech right. Now that they have the power, they're trampling on everybody else's free speech right.

It was a mistake to tolerate them. Ironically Marcuse's argument applies the best to his own movement.

Justus

140 day(s) ago

I just did. Didn't see any of this so-called evidence of yours. You'll need to work harder to turn your anecdotes into data, bro.

Math up or fuck out.

Justus

You um...do realize that there's a long fuckton of evidence for the proposition that there is a problem with free speech on campuses, no?

You seem to be coming fairly close to presupposing that a survey of student attitudes is the only relevant kind of evidence. Which...isn't even close to being close to being true.

Georges

Then point to some evidence that isn't anecdotal and that is both representative and statistically significant. There are over 4000 colleges in the US. How many instances have there been of protesters preventing invited speakers from speaking? Of the college withdrawing its invitation? How does that number compare to last year, to the recent past, to the civil rights era?

Give me numbers, not anecdotes. Math, or it didn't happen.

Kumazawa

140 day(s) ago

Justus is either a troll or is not paying attention.

Justus

140 day(s) ago

Justus is either a troll or is not paying attention.

Kumazawa

I'm sometimes forced to conclude that the problem with philosophy is that it's full of Arts students.

Kumazawa

140 day(s) ago

You sound like you feel 'forced' to conclude all sorts of things you should know better.

Georges

139 day(s) ago

Well, I'm not going to do your research for you, but I *am* willing to point out to you that there are plenty of places you can look to get the evidence that interests you. Places like *Campus Reform* are overflowing with information of the relevant kind ("anecdotes" as you might say)...though also some BS. FIRE has information and some numbers, too...and some stuff that could easily be turned into numbers, if that'll make you feel better.

But the real problem is your erroneous belief that no numbers means no problem. It'd take a fair bit of thought to even figure out how to develop the right kinds of measures... And, given that many of the kinds of people who might normally studying such things are personally and politically committed to denying that the problem exists...there are probably fewer such studies than there might have been.

I'm sometimes forced to conclude that that problem with many social scientists is that they think that numbers are magic. They tend to not be too clear on all the non-numeric evidence and reasoning that goes into producing the numbers and making sure that they represent what they're supposed to.



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